[Summit] replacement windows
anna galloway highsmith
anna at occupant.org
Mon Sep 29 18:08:40 UTC 2008
Thanks for all the info about insulation and knob'n'tube, everyone!
Serves me right for believing the first guy with a tool belt I talk to.
Anna
On Sep 29, 2008, at 1:59 PM, art at norwalkcom.com wrote:
> We had blown-in insulation done in our knob and tube wired house
> through RISE in about 1980. Still standing, and somewhat warmer. At
> the time, RISE was a state agency, not a private concern as it is
> now. Can't claim any scientific conclusions but that's our experience.
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Wallace, Jared" jared.wallace at fmr.com
> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:52:59 -0400
> To: "Summit Neighborhood" Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> Subject: Re: [Summit] replacement windows
>
>> Regarding knob and tube and insulation:
>>
>> We too had an energy audit done by RISE, through National Grid
>> (who pays
>> for it). They also told us that they wouldn't do any blown in
>> insulation
>> unless we removed all of our knob & tube and had a letter from an
>> electrician. That's really not feasible, even if you just
>> disconnect the
>> knob & tube so that it's inactive, you still have to run new wires,
>> which would be quite expensive.
>>
>> We had heard that knob & tube wasn't as bad as RISE says though,
>> so we
>> decided to get some quotes and advice from insulation
>> contractors. We
>> had 5 different companies look at our house which has no
>> insulation, and
>> each one said that they blow in around knob & tube all the time
>> and it
>> isn't a problem. According to one, it's perfectly legal to do it in
>> Mass, and it's only been against code in RI since 1987.
>> Apparently the
>> cellulose they use is treated with a fire retardant and will not
>> burn. I
>> don't have any independent verification of this, but would be
>> interested
>> if someone else does.
>>
>> I decided to do it own my own and will just do the attic and be
>> careful
>> around the knob and tube, or use something other that cellulose
>> in the
>> areas near wiring.
>>
>> Also, RISE is the only company authorized through the National Grid
>> program (which now pays 50% of the insulation cost), but they are
>> also
>> more expensive, have a long wait time, and insist on the no
>> knob&tube.
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: summit-bounces at sna.providence.ri.us
>> [mailto:summit-bounces at sna.providence.ri.us] On Behalf Of Bresler E
>> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:45 PM
>> To: anna galloway highsmith; Summit Neighborhood
>> Subject: Re: [Summit] replacement windows
>>
>>
>> Re: opening the walls to remove knob & tube- that sounds extreme &
>> maybe unnecessary; if you have had your house rewired already, I
>> should
>> think that if all the knob & tube was disconnected from any power
>> source, what could happen? Can't you tell at the breaker panel which
>> wiring is new and which isn't?
>> And if you have not done the wiring but plan to- make sure all
>> the knob
>> & tube feeds are clearly identified before you start, so in the
>> end you
>> can know for sure that they have all be disconnected.
>>
>> Elianna
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:59 AM, anna galloway highsmith
>> <anna at occupant.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Excellent points, Elianna and Joanna. I second your
>> recommendation for silk long underwear, Elianna! It has made winters
>> tolerable for me. When I need to replace mine or my family's, I
>> often
>> find good deals at Sierra Trading Post (I think it's
>> sierratradingpost.com).
>>
>> And I agree about vinyl windows-- a huge waste of money and
>> resources. Our house has a few windows that were replaced some
>> years ago
>> with the crappiest, leakiest windows you can imagine. It is these
>> windows we are replacing with double-paned wood windows. For our
>> original double-hung windows, we're replacing just the old, broken
>> and/or missing storm windows with new super-tight storms.
>>
>> We got an energy audit to find out about insulation and other
>> things, and the auditor said that since our house once had knob-
>> and-tube
>> electrical wiring, no insulation contractor would agree to
>> insulate our
>> (finished) attic or walls because of the risk of fire. They'd
>> only do it
>> if we got an electrician to certify that every scrap of old
>> knob-and-tube was gone, and no electrician would do that without
>> tearing
>> open all the walls to visually inspect everything, because if
>> they were
>> wrong, and there were a fire, they'd be liable. So until we
>> decide to do
>> a gut renovation (yeah, right), it looks like we'll continue on
>> un-insulated. Cripes. So we're focussing on air leaks for now.
>>
>> I'll look into those numbered valves next. I think we'll be
>> camping out in just one or two rooms this winter. Or if things get
>> really bad, a pup tent and a lightbulb in the living room!
>>
>> Stay warm everyone,
>> Anna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Bresler E wrote:
>>
>>
>> Although we have never owned, we have both often been
>> long term tenants who came to take an interest in the properties
>> we have
>> lived in, especially since we have always paid for our own heat. My
>> experiences with window replacement, insulation and efficient
>> heating
>> are as follows.
>>
>> HEATING SYSTEM itself:
>> I think the most important is to make sure your heating
>> system itself works efficiently. Get it checked regularly. If you
>> have
>> steam or hot water, keep your boiler filled up, which on old
>> systems can
>> mean weekly filling or more! (But do NOT overfill) Allowing your
>> boiler
>> to fire on insufficient water can waste a LOT of oil or gas.
>> Keep your radiators or other types of heating sources
>> unobstructed.
>>
>> If you have radiators, use the newer numbered pressure
>> relief valves (the upper one on the radiator- about $6 each at Home
>> Depot) to balance the heat distribution. They allow you to more
>> easily
>> control how much heat goes to which radiators, so you never need
>> to over
>> heat one room- say the dining room in order to finally warm up the
>> bathroom. In that case, just reduce the amount of steam passing
>> through
>> the dining room radiator, and increase the amount of steam
>> passing out
>> from the bathroom radiator, and more heat will go there. (The
>> valves to
>> the radiators them selves [at floor level] should only be either
>> off or
>> on- otherwise you are likely to collect water and get banging
>> noises)
>>
>> INSULATION: Insulation blown into the walls helps a
>> lot. But make sure the contractors are reputable and do it right.
>> Someone I know recently renovated her home and pulled off an
>> inside of a
>> wall, to discover that the insulation was blown in only part way up,
>> barely to the top of the windows. Upon checking she discovered
>> all the
>> walls were done that way! seriously undermining the insulation job.
>> Make sure your basement windows are decent also, to
>> reduce the cold under your first floor.
>>
>> INSULATE OURSELVES: I used to think silk long-underwear
>> was yuppie "narishkite" i.e. expensive nonsense, till someone
>> gave me
>> some as a gift. Unlike cotton/waffle thermal underwear, it breathes
>> well, so you are far less likely to over heat. Over heating with
>> thermal underwear is not just uncomfortable, it makes you damp,
>> which
>> means then next time your are exposed to cold, the underwear
>> makes you
>> cold, working against you. NOT helpful. A light layer of machine
>> washable, knit silk produces a lot of warmth, without the over
>> heating,
>> then chill side effect- in my experience. It IS expensive, but
>> shopping
>> around can locate sales, and old silk t-shirt/tops can be
>> recycled as
>> under layers if they are big enough to allow for the shrinking
>> caused by
>> washing. (And wash separately the first couple times because the
>> colors
>> run like crazy.)
>> Compared to the price of oil, a worthwhile investment, I
>> think
>>
>> ON REPLACEMENT WINDOWS: My experience has also turned
>> me against replacement windows (except maybe where the current
>> windows
>> have been allowed to complete deteriorate). I lived in a "3-
>> decker" in
>> Brookline where the land lord replaced all our old windows with
>> vinyl
>> windows.
>> 1) Oddly, since it was the most common window size in
>> Boston, which has a gazillion "3-deckers", no one made that size
>> window.
>> So the replacements were smaller, not by much, but enough to be
>> unattractive and let in noticeably less light.
>> 2) Either the plastic or the cement out-gased a chemical
>> smell, which gave me headaches the whole first winter, unless I
>> opened
>> the windows, thereby defeating the whole reason for installing them.
>> 3) At least one person in all three units had some new
>> respiratory complaint that year. Maybe from the out-gassing, or
>> maybe
>> from the less air circulation... a little air is not a bad thing.
>> 4) The plastic was vulnerable to distortion. We were
>> warned, AFTER the installation, that air conditioners resting on it
>> would twist it out of shape so that the window would not close
>> when the
>> ac was removed for the winter. So we in all three units had to
>> custom
>> build a total of six frame works to support our air conditioners. We
>> could not find any thing built for that purpose.
>>
>> Elianna
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Joanna Doherty
>> <joanna_doherty at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I forget exactly when the message re:
>> replacement windows was posted and I must confess I don't
>> remember the
>> particulars of the situation. But I wanted to briefly respond
>> not just
>> to the person who posted that message, but for others who may be
>> concerned about rising energy costs and considering replacing their
>> windows.
>>
>> -- You don't lose as much energy through your
>> windows as replacement window companies want you to believe and
>> your new
>> windows won't ever pay for themselves through energy savings.
>> You are
>> much better off spending your money on insulation for your attic.
>> -- Studies have shown that a single-pane,
>> wood-sash window plus storm window provides the same energy
>> efficiency
>> as a new, double-pane window. Storm windows are less expensive than
>> replacement windows, so you're better off spending your money (and
>> reducing drafts) that way.
>> -- Replacement windows are unlikely to fit the
>> window openings in your house as well as your existing window sash,
>> which were built for your house. And vinyl deteriorates with
>> exposure
>> to UV light -- making the windows even less likely to fit the window
>> openings over time.
>> -- Double-paned windows have a seal that often
>> fails, causing the glass to fog and requiring you to replace the
>> entire
>> window.
>> -- Replacing your windows isn't very "green" --
>> your original windows will go to a landfill, your replacement
>> windows
>> will go to a landfill when they need to be replaced, and most
>> replacement windows are made of vinyl. The manufacture of vinyl
>> involves hazardous chemicals. Vinyl cannot easily be recycled and
>> therefore is often deposited in landfills, where it can leach
>> chemicals.
>> Or it is incinerated, which releases harmful chemicals. More on
>> this
>> here: http://bluevinyl.org/PVC.pdf
>> -- If you choose to restore rather than replace
>> your original windows and live in the historic district, you can
>> take
>> advantage of the Historic Homeowner Tax Credit -- meaning you'll
>> get a
>> tax credit (credit, not deduction) worth 20% of the cost of
>> restoring
>> the windows. Much of our neighborhood is in the Summit Historic
>> District, which is bounded (roughly) by Summit Ave., Camp St.,
>> Creston
>> Way and Rochambeau Ave. More info on the tax credit here:
>> http://www.preservation.ri.gov/credits/homeowner.php
>>
>> The Boston Globe's handyman had a bit on
>> replacement windows recently, which makes many of the same
>> arguments:
>>
>> http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/house/articles/2008/07/17/
>> replacing_wind
>> ows_birds_in_the_air_conditioner/
>>
>> And here's a link to a tip sheet on windows from
>> the National Trust for Historic Preservation:
>> http://www.preservationnation.org/issues/sustainability/
>> additional-resou
>> rces/July2008WindowsTipSheet.pdf
>>
>> I work in the preservation field and believe
>> that historic windows contribute to the character of buildings and
>> neighborhoods. But it's not just a preservation issue --
>> retaining your
>> original windows also makes sense from an economic and environmental
>> standpoint. If anyone reading this wants any more info, feel free to
>> contact me.
>>
>> Joanna
>> 62 Dexterdale Rd.
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn "10
>> hidden secrets" from Jamie. Learn Now
>> <http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-
>> Blog-c
>> ns%21550F681DAD532637%215295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>
>> http://mail.sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/
>> summit_sna.providence.
>> ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you would like to receive emailings for upcoming
>> FISHEL BRESLER PERFORMANCES,
>> email us at BreslersMusic at gmail.com & we'll include you.
>> www.matchbook.org/ArtistProfile1.aspx?ProfileId=302
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>
>> http://mail.sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/
>> summit_sna.providence.
>> ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you would like to receive emailings for upcoming
>> FISHEL BRESLER PERFORMANCES,
>> email us at BreslersMusic at gmail.com & we'll include you.
>> www.matchbook.org/ArtistProfile1.aspx?ProfileId=302
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://mail.sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/
> summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
More information about the Summit
mailing list