[Summit] tot lot

Sat Sep 22 11:43:52 UTC 2012

No disrespect to dog owners - but there is the whole neighborhood
in which to walk them.  I've been taking morning and evening walks
for several months, and meet lots of these nice people and their
pets en route.

The kids, however, can't PLAY except in a few safe, designated
areas with equipment and toys.  (That's why they are called
"playgrounds").  Let's not complain about the "clutter" - kids
need toys for playing.  It's not in your own backyard, after all.

Blessings,

Liberty G

--- On Sat, 9/22/12, craig borges <craigborges at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: craig borges <craigborges at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Summit] tot lot
To: "summit at sna.providence.ri.us" <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Date: Saturday, September 22, 2012, 2:45 AM

I understand everyone's arguments here. Ideally the park would be used by all -- urban gardeners, dog walkers, toddlers -- but 9th Street is rather tiny. My beef is that up until a few years ago, it was not filled with so many toys. I know this because I used to walk a dog through it weekly (and yes, I picked up after her). There was the swingset/slide and at most, two or three other large toys. Now it's jammed with all kinds of crap. I don't care if it's used primarily by 2- and 3-year-olds. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with parents not cleaning up after the kids -- bringing the toys home where they belong. You wouldn't leave your yard a mess like that, why should a public park be treated any differently? Again, if a toy is left behind, it should be thrown out or given to Goodwill. Obviously the kid doesn't
 want/need it any more.Craig Borges

        From: "summit-request at sna.providence.ri.us" <summit-request at sna.providence.ri.us>
 To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us 
 Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 12:36 AM
 Subject: Summit Digest, Vol 90, Issue 43

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Today's Topics:

   1. Community (Emlyn Addison)
   2. Re: Tot Lot redesign backstory (Emlyn Addison)
   3. Re: Tot Lot redesign backstory (Julie McCoy)
   4. Re: Tot Lot redesign backstory (John Bazik)
   5. Re: Tot Lot redesign backstory (John Bazik)
   6. Re: Community (John Bazik)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 19:34:05 -0400
From: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: [Summit] Community
Message-ID:
    <CAEAT3MHW=JB4CQO=Kk7chzAS04WJP7u8MPjGfDw8sVUeQ-aNVw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
>         in my experience, community gardens have proved themselves as ways
> of building community... not only among the gardeners but among those who
> get to witness and appreciate the work that goes into making things grow ..
> aka the kibitzers
>

If that makes anyone's "eyes glaze over" then it's a sad commentary on our
existence as city dwellers. I'm not a tree-hugging, crunchy granola,
lab-walking enema cultist, but even I, in my narrow, artsy, slightly geeky
worldview, see an opportunity to gain a little--just a
little--community-mindedness in the neighborhood.

It's really quite amazing how much pushback even this tiny project invites,
for reasons that are mostly inconsequential to
 _anyone_.

Emlyn
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 19:38:06 -0400
From: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] Tot Lot redesign backstory
Message-ID:
    <CAEAT3MG3X+vG2mh=Y3ipZKbFEi2gXAkiKfe7j91gqvjGk6rmqg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>
> Is the swingset leased to a specific family? I get what John is saying..
>

By this logic, every park would, by law, have to cater to every conceivable
end-user type, or no park at all.

I understand that these would be "private" plots of land on otherwise
public land (as beautiful as any landscaping, John), but I don't see
residents rushing to fill the spaces left by departing farmers' market
stalls at Lippitt each week.

People, come on.

Emlyn
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:05:35 -0400
From: Julie McCoy <jmccoy49 at gmail.com>
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] Tot Lot redesign backstory
Message-ID:
    <CAMQGCF5+2yzKf0d8nrdTQnmZz4JaN17vE8OUy-L=8gsEfYMg2Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Where were all you people with strong opinions at meeting time last night?
I wish you had been there so that we could have had a more
 complete
discussion.

Julie

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>wrote:

> Is the swingset leased to a specific family? I get what John is saying..
>>
>
> By this logic, every park would, by law, have to cater to every
> conceivable end-user type, or no park at all.
>
> I understand that these would be "private" plots of land on otherwise
> public land (as beautiful as any landscaping, John), but I don't see
> residents rushing to fill the spaces left by departing farmers' market
> stalls at Lippitt each week.
>
> People, come on.
>
> Emlyn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 23:51:16 -0400
From: John Bazik <jsb at cs.brown.edu>
To: Robert
 Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit Neighborhood <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Tot Lot redesign backstory
Message-ID: <20120922035116.GB12799 at cs.brown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 07:29:55PM -0400, Robert Mathiesen wrote:
> I see the future more or less as Greg does, with permanent major food
> scarcities becoming the rule in a decade or so.  I'm 70; I may well be gone

I am skeptical.

> by the time all the supermarkets really start to empty out.  People younger
> than me, however, may well need an established network of
 neighborhood
> gardens and gardeners if they want to keep on eating well.

And farming plots leased to individual citizens on public land by the
government is the answer to that problem?  I've seen Mad Max, and I think
what we really want is to be hoarding gasoline.  Besides, I thought we
wanted community gardens because we like the idea and so that kids can
see that vegetables are plants.

And anyway, can anyone please remember that my objection is not to
gardens, but to renting public land?

John

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 00:25:23 -0400
From: John Bazik <jsb at cs.brown.edu>
To: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
Cc: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] Tot Lot redesign backstory
Message-ID: <20120922042523.GC12799 at cs.brown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 07:38:06PM -0400, Emlyn Addison wrote:
> By this logic, every park would, by law, have to cater to every conceivable
> end-user type, or no park at all.

I don't think anyone has suggested that, and you are missing the point.

> I understand that these would be "private" plots of land on otherwise
> public land (as beautiful as any landscaping, John), but I don't see
> residents rushing to fill the spaces left by departing farmers' market
> stalls at Lippitt each week.

Oh, so that makes it okay.  No one wants that land anyway. 
 I heard that.
The 10% of the Ninth St lot is the part no one uses anyway - so who
could object?

Okay.  Why don't we charge $1 an hour to use public basketball courts?
The Hope High tennis courts seem really popular - I think the city could
make a few bucks there.  Gee, all this public land that people want to
use, why not monetize it?  Suppose I want the slide on Ninth St for my
kids, and my kids alone?  If I have enough money, can I "rent" it?  Hmm,
if I rent it, can I charge admission?

What about my street?  Can I rent a parking space on my street?  Oh,
actually, I guess I can, now.  $100/yr.

I think a garden is a perfectly fine use for public land.  My concern is
the privatization of the public common.  Have you heard of HOT lanes?
They are HOV lanes that, for a price, you can drive in with no passengers.
It's the latest trend in highway
 management.  Highways, streets, parks...

John

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 00:36:06 -0400
From: John Bazik <jsb at cs.brown.edu>
To: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
Cc: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] Community
Message-ID: <20120922043605.GD12799 at cs.brown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 07:34:05PM -0400, Emlyn Addison wrote:
> If that makes anyone's "eyes glaze over" then it's a sad commentary on our

Pardon my
 sarcasm.  My issue is not with gardens per se.

John

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