[Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Read Porter
rdporter01 at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 15 18:38:38 UTC 2015
Based on the data presented at last night's meeting, the speeding on Blackstone is a safety issue. There is a big difference in safety between 25 and 35MPH, as noted here: "Evidence indicates that when struck by a vehicle traveling forty miles per hour (mph; 64.4 km/h), a pedestrian has an85 percent chance of death, and the fatality rate drops to 45 percent at thirty mph (48.2 km/h) and to 5 percent at twenty mph (32.2 km/h; UK Department of Transport 1997; Zegeer et al. 2002; ETSC 2005)."
It seems to me that 25MPH is a reasonable speed especially given the high usage of the street by non-motorists. Given that, we should be working to design the road so that 25mph seems like the "right" speed. Speed lumps and the like are band-aids that we use to treat the symptom (speeding), not the cause (overbuilt infrastructure).
Narrowing the usable lanes through visual cues and physical separation as others have suggested (neckdowns, protected bike lanes) is a way to actually fix the problem while improving the experience for non-motorized road users. The planning department did say that we would get less of a speed benefit from this, but in combination with other means we should be able to improve things without causing other problems, and the price tag would be low as well.
From: "summit-request at sna.providence.ri.us" <summit-request at sna.providence.ri.us>
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:00 PM
Subject: Summit Digest, Vol 129, Issue 12
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Sumati Eberstadt)
2. Blackstone Blvd (Karen Klingon)
3. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
4. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Andrew Cagen)
5. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic
(O'Kelly, Charlotte)
6. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Robert Mathiesen)
7. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (Robert Mathiesen)
8. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Robin Everett-McGuirl)
9. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Emlyn Addison)
10. Speed bumps (Michael McGlynn)
11. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (Christopher Buecheler)
12. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
13. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (Andrew Nosal)
14. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
15. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Greg Gerritt)
16. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
17. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
18. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Christopher Buecheler)
19. Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Andrew Nosal)
20. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (Christopher Buecheler)
21. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Greg Gerritt)
22. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Emlyn Addison)
23. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Sumati Eberstadt)
24. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd
traffic, Schools, Firefighters (madeline klein)
25. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
26. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Greg Gerritt)
27. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Christopher Buecheler)
28. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Jeffrey Cavanaugh)
29. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (John Bazik)
30. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (John Bazik)
31. Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools,
Firefighters (Emlyn Addison)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:14:13 -0500
From: Sumati Eberstadt <sumieber at earthlink.net>
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit Neighborhood <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <37739FB7-31D5-4B3D-911C-887048C8ED08 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
How about just having a policeman there now and then giving out tickets. All this with speed bumps and raised crosswalks and signs and bump outs is just unnecessary. I rarely see people speeding there. Who?s been complaining about it? And who?s going to make money from doing all this work?
Sumati
On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:45:38 -0500
From: Karen Klingon <kklingon at earthlink.net>
To: Summit Neighborhood <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: [Summit] Blackstone Blvd
Message-ID: <A13EE910-42DE-4209-B2F4-CC7657589F7F at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I agree with Andrew that bump outs and speed bumps tend to have the opposite effect than the one intended. Over on Hillside Ave, long a speedway, people jam on the gas after having to slow down at a the bump outs. Those calming measures create noise; aggressive driving; and maybe additional pollution for all I know. That said, I really hate being aggressively tailgated when I drive the speed limit on the boulevard.
Meanwhile, I've been trying for three years to get a blade-style dead-end sign for our cup-de-sac--one that drivers will actually see--without success, because "the city doesn't have the money." I've seen an ambulance and a firetruck drive in here and have to turn around, wasting seconds if not minutes--not to mention, six or eight vehicles every hour. So yes--where is the money for the boulevard project coming from?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:49:32 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Sumati Eberstadt <sumieber at earthlink.net>, Christopher Buecheler
<cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit Neighborhood <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU37VzRSvoEtPMw=gPKFjTExkm3go-u64KeEWiLG1NiWQw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Probably the cheapest option and can work, but you have to give out tickets
to the point where it's a thing - like school st and prospect st. in
pawtucket - it used to be everyone just knew not to speed there.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:15 PM Sumati Eberstadt <sumieber at earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
> How about just having a policeman there now and then giving out tickets.
> All this with speed bumps and raised crosswalks and signs and bump outs is
> just unnecessary. I rarely see people speeding there. Who?s been
> complaining about it? And who?s going to make money from doing all this
> work?
> Sumati
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
> >
> > --
> > -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> > -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> > _______________________________________________
> > Summit mailing list
> > Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> > http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> > SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 13:37:14 -0500
From: Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <AA28F6FB-3262-4414-809E-7C6E1E334B41 at acagen.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any event, I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
Andy Cagen
Sent from my iPhonemps.
On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:58:22 +0000
From: "O'Kelly, Charlotte" <COKELLY at providence.edu>
To: Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>, Andrew Nosal
<andy at mapcenter.com>, "summit at sna.providence.ri.us"
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic
Message-ID: <274194b78fdb44d68df2952a7569215e at mbx01.providence.col>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The bumped out, narrowed lanes push cyclists and runners into the traffic lane and force them to look backwards to gauge the cars coming from behind them as they have to enter the car lane. The cyclists on the blvd will be in a lot more danger with these types of calming measures. Bumps can also be hard on cyclists. Separating the biking and running lanes from the driving lanes would be a safer method of changing the traffic patterns than those neckdowns, bump outs and bumps.
Charlotte
From: Summit [mailto:summit-bounces at sna.providence.ri.us] On Behalf Of Greg Gerritt
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 12:07 PM
To: Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com>; summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
I Iike Andy's suggestion. greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Nosal
Sent: Dec 14, 2015 11:18 AM
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us<mailto:summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
I see apartment sized SUVs going over 40 mph all the time. 15? I wish.
Neckdowns and narrow lanes would be much better than humps. (In Germany they call it a toten polizei - dead policeman)
When some Blackstone Blvd Bigshot decides he does not like the sound of drivers gunning it each time they come off a hump, they will have to be removed.
What should be done: make the southbound side 2-way, with narrow lanes. Northbound side has barriers at intersections so each block is only a cul de sac for local access by cars, but bicycles etc can roll on through: a 2-way bike route. North of the Cemetary entrance, the pavement can be removed except for a cycle track.
On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:59 AM, Anne Holland <aholland at gmail.com<mailto:aholland at gmail.com>> wrote:
We need them on Summit instead where people drag race late at night due to the lack of stop signs
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 14, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com<mailto:cwbuecheler at gmail.com>> wrote:
Seriously? They're going to put speed bumps on a road where you're already lucky if you're not stuck behind an apartment-sized SUV doing 15 MPH?
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 14:08:57 -0500
From: Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
To: Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>
Cc: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CALgP6Heynff_RS7dVOKY33r-EpN7jForBSKPqX0Op2ad5RKYcg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically
impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the
city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if
every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I
suspect even that wouldn't work.)
Bob M
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any event,
> I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
> Andy Cagen
>
> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 14:16:52 -0500
From: Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
To: Art Norwalk <artnorwalk at gmail.com>
Cc: Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CALgP6Hf9K300no1MnvGLrcA72Zjj=v5nskRQGsWJabcO-_wMLg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Just like turning left immediately, before the oncoming traffic can get
moving. That's another thing I'd really like to see end, but I know it
never will. All I can do is refuse to do it myself, and try to give the
straight-through traffic room to get by me if I can. -- Bob M
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Art Norwalk <artnorwalk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 35 has been a gimme on the Blvd for decades.
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
>> speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
>> I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
>> impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
>> speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>>
>> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically
>> impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the
>> city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if
>> every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I
>> suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>>
>> Bob M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any
>>> event, I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>>> Andy Cagen
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <
>>> cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>
>
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:28:54 -0500
From: Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>
To: Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAJ=GAOMva10veKMo5cUmYY8=fab3q46DNX+NbcbgvOPzh3NxUQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Blackstone is so constantly destroyed by potholes and ripped up by snow
plows, I don't see the need for speedbumps. I'm constantly behind people
going insanely slow on Blackstone as it is. Furthermore, it's one of the
only ways to get around the Eastside without hitting 800 stop signs and/or
lights, so it would make me crazy if we further hampered traffic in the
city by adding these speedbumps. Not to mention that the traffic from the
lights at Angel and Waterman streets already backs way up to Blackstone.
But, I guess if there are people here who want it to be impossible to go
over 25, ever, I don't really think we're going to agree on this.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
> speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
> I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
> impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
> speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>
> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically
> impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the
> city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if
> every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I
> suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>
> Bob M
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any event,
>> I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>> Andy Cagen
>>
>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <
>> cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>
>> --
>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
--
-
*Robin McGuirl*
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:39:19 -0500
From: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
To: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEAT3MH4UQX=VmVrjo=Fg+C6XFisDAdwmF4UUQYNnOQqD1FnLw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Speed bumps and 4-way stops (and potholes) all increase gas use and noise.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
> speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
> I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
> impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
> speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>
> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically
> impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the
> city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if
> every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I
> suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>
> Bob M
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any event,
>> I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>> Andy Cagen
>>
>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <
>> cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>
>> --
>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:41:27 -0500
From: Michael McGlynn <mmcglynn at gmail.com>
To: "summit at sna.providence.ri.us" <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: [Summit] Speed bumps
Message-ID:
<CACmCVg4HmEsnJcKe-LwDQnxX5GVynmmMkzK8mNrEKH2jtP8Txg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We have 'em, but they're called potholes. Reverse speed bumps.
--
Thank You,
Michael McGlynn
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:46:25 -0500
From: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
To: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CALGfqSK_OSkC_drvKU9gymJxA0hRyYWsKRF1g-EajWUwfz4Upw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Except that in Providence, drivers going straight will often come to a
sudden halt and flash their lights at you in an attempt to be "nice" and
allow you make an terrible-for-insurance-purposes left turn in front of
them, then get mad at you when you refuse to accept their generosity, which
just further encourages people to jump the gun at green lights. This
happens to me *all the time*. "Refusing to take one's right of way" is like
this city's favorite pastime.
Why is 25 a magic number to aspire to? People drive 35 on Blackstone
because it's a wide, mostly straight, mostly flat road with good
visibility. The 25 mph speed limit feels unnecessarily low for the road
(though not nearly as ridiculous as giving North Main, a four-lane divided
highway, 25 mph limits).
I guess I understand why some people want it to be that slow, but if
there's no data suggesting that Blackstone is particularly dangerous, then
the list of more worthwhile city and neighborhood-specific things that
money could instead be spent on is nearly infinite.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just like turning left immediately, before the oncoming traffic can get
> moving. That's another thing I'd really like to see end, but I know it
> never will. All I can do is refuse to do it myself, and try to give the
> straight-through traffic room to get by me if I can. -- Bob M
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Art Norwalk <artnorwalk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 35 has been a gimme on the Blvd for decades.
>>
>>
>>
--
-Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
-http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:07:19 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen
<rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU0bu+dXpC_bkgPvHqcpXKYCrQArBZkQBCLsrc+0U+jwbw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Interesting perspectives.
I've often felt it's crazy that my side street, North Main and Blackstone
all have the same speed limit! Some of these places should probably be 20,
others, like North Main, Blackstone, could arguably be 30, except that we
live in a world of poor enforcement and if you don't fit certain profiles,
you are unlikely to get pulled over unless going in excess of 10-15 over
the limit and/or tailgating or driving erratically or aggressively. So we
set limits lower and add stop signs, which only work for the law abiding.
Part of me loves the speed table - it doesn't discriminate and boy does it
work. I just LAUGH when someone aggressively tailgates me on Smith st. by
the State House. I like to pull out of their way so they can hit that thing
as fast as they want! When combined with a raised crosswalk and judiciously
applied, tables can be a good thing. Neck downs can also be done to
accommodate bike lanes without them having to rejoin the traffic lane. So
those can work too.
And, of course, the technology exists to force every car to obey every
speed limit. The cars all have computers that monitor speed, and GPS, so
they could have "smart" speed governors. It could even be sold as a
"feature" to help drivers qualify for cheaper insurance or to avoid tickets.
I'm not sure here is a huge speed issue on Blackstone (except the odd nut
case late at night - but does anything work against them?), but, there are
lots of pedestrians in nice weather, so there could be a distracted driving
issue. Speed humps will help with that too!
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:30 PM Robin Everett-McGuirl <
ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Blackstone is so constantly destroyed by potholes and ripped up by snow
> plows, I don't see the need for speedbumps. I'm constantly behind people
> going insanely slow on Blackstone as it is. Furthermore, it's one of the
> only ways to get around the Eastside without hitting 800 stop signs and/or
> lights, so it would make me crazy if we further hampered traffic in the
> city by adding these speedbumps. Not to mention that the traffic from the
> lights at Angel and Waterman streets already backs way up to Blackstone.
> But, I guess if there are people here who want it to be impossible to go
> over 25, ever, I don't really think we're going to agree on this.
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
>> speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
>> I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
>> impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
>> speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>>
>> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically
>> impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the
>> city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if
>> every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I
>> suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>>
>> Bob M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any
>>> event, I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>>> Andy Cagen
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <
>>> cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -
> *Robin McGuirl*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 16:08:58 -0500
From: Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com>
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <8839CDAB-15C8-4390-AE13-31C111D88F47 at mapcenter.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The path along Blackstone is one of the most visited parks in the city. When traffic is going past at 35-40 you can not even converse in a normal tone of voice. Stress, blood pressure and adrenaline are all elevated in the presence of motor vehicles moving that fast. It will take 45 seconds more to drive a mile at 20 mph than 40 mph and the park will be more like a park and less like a highway median strip.
45 seconds, yo!
Plus, a ?bike route? is a serious fail if a typical mom will not let a 4th grader ride their bike along it.
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Except that in Providence, drivers going straight will often come to a sudden halt and flash their lights at you in an attempt to be "nice" and allow you make an terrible-for-insurance-purposes left turn in front of them, then get mad at you when you refuse to accept their generosity, which just further encourages people to jump the gun at green lights. This happens to me *all the time*. "Refusing to take one's right of way" is like this city's favorite pastime.
>
> Why is 25 a magic number to aspire to? People drive 35 on Blackstone because it's a wide, mostly straight, mostly flat road with good visibility. The 25 mph speed limit feels unnecessarily low for the road (though not nearly as ridiculous as giving North Main, a four-lane divided highway, 25 mph limits).
>
> I guess I understand why some people want it to be that slow, but if there's no data suggesting that Blackstone is particularly dangerous, then the list of more worthwhile city and neighborhood-specific things that money could instead be spent on is nearly infinite.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com <mailto:rmath13 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Just like turning left immediately, before the oncoming traffic can get moving. That's another thing I'd really like to see end, but I know it never will. All I can do is refuse to do it myself, and try to give the straight-through traffic room to get by me if I can. -- Bob M
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Art Norwalk <artnorwalk at gmail.com <mailto:artnorwalk at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 35 has been a gimme on the Blvd for decades.
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com <http://cwbuecheler.com/> | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:09:45 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU1_L=C6GNax8ZdrAUXCY8x49rmMngiqFVKGvq4x5riMWA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I suspect part of the motivation isn't speed or safety, it's a desire to
keep outsiders from cutting through.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:47 PM Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Except that in Providence, drivers going straight will often come to a
> sudden halt and flash their lights at you in an attempt to be "nice" and
> allow you make an terrible-for-insurance-purposes left turn in front of
> them, then get mad at you when you refuse to accept their generosity, which
> just further encourages people to jump the gun at green lights. This
> happens to me *all the time*. "Refusing to take one's right of way" is like
> this city's favorite pastime.
>
> Why is 25 a magic number to aspire to? People drive 35 on Blackstone
> because it's a wide, mostly straight, mostly flat road with good
> visibility. The 25 mph speed limit feels unnecessarily low for the road
> (though not nearly as ridiculous as giving North Main, a four-lane divided
> highway, 25 mph limits).
>
> I guess I understand why some people want it to be that slow, but if
> there's no data suggesting that Blackstone is particularly dangerous, then
> the list of more worthwhile city and neighborhood-specific things that
> money could instead be spent on is nearly infinite.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Just like turning left immediately, before the oncoming traffic can get
>> moving. That's another thing I'd really like to see end, but I know it
>> never will. All I can do is refuse to do it myself, and try to give the
>> straight-through traffic room to get by me if I can. -- Bob M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Art Norwalk <artnorwalk at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 35 has been a gimme on the Blvd for decades.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 16:14:27 -0500
From: Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>
To: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>, Robin Everett-McGuirl
<ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <D2949B37.6282C%gerritt at mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Clearly very few of you ever try to cross N main st. on foot. to a
pedestrian the excessive speed is dangerous. greg
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
Date: Monday, December 14, 2015 at 4:07 PM
To: Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen
<rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit Neighborhood <Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Interesting perspectives.
I've often felt it's crazy that my side street, North Main and Blackstone
all have the same speed limit! Some of these places should probably be 20,
others, like North Main, Blackstone, could arguably be 30, except that we
live in a world of poor enforcement and if you don't fit certain profiles,
you are unlikely to get pulled over unless going in excess of 10-15 over the
limit and/or tailgating or driving erratically or aggressively. So we set
limits lower and add stop signs, which only work for the law abiding.
Part of me loves the speed table - it doesn't discriminate and boy does it
work. I just LAUGH when someone aggressively tailgates me on Smith st. by
the State House. I like to pull out of their way so they can hit that thing
as fast as they want! When combined with a raised crosswalk and judiciously
applied, tables can be a good thing. Neck downs can also be done to
accommodate bike lanes without them having to rejoin the traffic lane. So
those can work too.
And, of course, the technology exists to force every car to obey every speed
limit. The cars all have computers that monitor speed, and GPS, so they
could have "smart" speed governors. It could even be sold as a "feature" to
help drivers qualify for cheaper insurance or to avoid tickets.
I'm not sure here is a huge speed issue on Blackstone (except the odd nut
case late at night - but does anything work against them?), but, there are
lots of pedestrians in nice weather, so there could be a distracted driving
issue. Speed humps will help with that too!
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:30 PM Robin Everett-McGuirl
<ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Blackstone is so constantly destroyed by potholes and ripped up by snow plows,
> I don't see the need for speedbumps. I'm constantly behind people going
> insanely slow on Blackstone as it is. Furthermore, it's one of the only ways
> to get around the Eastside without hitting 800 stop signs and/or lights, so it
> would make me crazy if we further hampered traffic in the city by adding these
> speedbumps. Not to mention that the traffic from the lights at Angel and
> Waterman streets already backs way up to Blackstone.
> But, I guess if there are people here who want it to be impossible to go over
> 25, ever, I don't really think we're going to agree on this.
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the speed
>> limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main I try
>> never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an impatient
>> tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred speed. It's
>> not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>>
>> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically
>> impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the
>> city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if
>> every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I
>> suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>>
>> Bob M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com> wrote:
>>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any event, I
>>> add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>>> Andy Cagen
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>>>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Summit mailing list
>>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
>
>
> --
> -
> Robin McGuirl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
_______________________________________________ Summit mailing list
Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us SNA
Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:18:11 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com>, summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU3EtNn3OREKubU01+f1BCENmDVmBAyD2=Y_g6n9qSZ3yg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Remember how for years it was unofficially 4 lanes? And people resisted the
bike lanes.
Agree things could be even better but I think the bike lanes helped some,
and were dirt cheap to do.
I'm fine with whatever, but a speed hump every block would not be my first
pick. I don't think a widening of the median or closing 1 side to vehicles
is likely though, no matter what we may think of each idea (both much
better than excessive humps or stop signs, IMHO).
My "parked car barrier" idea is cheap and would be safe - it's used widely
in NYC, but may be overkill for the BLVD. Aesthetic issues.
Neck-downs are fine if they accommodate cyclists and push close enough to
the travel lane to be effective.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:09 PM Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com> wrote:
> The path along Blackstone is one of the most visited parks in the city.
> When traffic is going past at 35-40 you can not even converse in a normal
> tone of voice. Stress, blood pressure and adrenaline are all elevated in
> the presence of motor vehicles moving that fast. It will take 45 seconds
> more to drive a mile at 20 mph than 40 mph and the park will be more like a
> park and less like a highway median strip.
>
> 45 seconds, yo!
>
> Plus, a ?bike route? is a serious fail if a typical mom will not let a 4th
> grader ride their bike along it.
>
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Except that in Providence, drivers going straight will often come to a
> sudden halt and flash their lights at you in an attempt to be "nice" and
> allow you make an terrible-for-insurance-purposes left turn in front of
> them, then get mad at you when you refuse to accept their generosity, which
> just further encourages people to jump the gun at green lights. This
> happens to me *all the time*. "Refusing to take one's right of way" is like
> this city's favorite pastime.
>
> Why is 25 a magic number to aspire to? People drive 35 on Blackstone
> because it's a wide, mostly straight, mostly flat road with good
> visibility. The 25 mph speed limit feels unnecessarily low for the road
> (though not nearly as ridiculous as giving North Main, a four-lane divided
> highway, 25 mph limits).
>
> I guess I understand why some people want it to be that slow, but if
> there's no data suggesting that Blackstone is particularly dangerous, then
> the list of more worthwhile city and neighborhood-specific things that
> money could instead be spent on is nearly infinite.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Just like turning left immediately, before the oncoming traffic can get
>> moving. That's another thing I'd really like to see end, but I know it
>> never will. All I can do is refuse to do it myself, and try to give the
>> straight-through traffic room to get by me if I can. -- Bob M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Art Norwalk <artnorwalk at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 35 has been a gimme on the Blvd for decades.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:21:22 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>, Jeffrey Cavanaugh
<jeff at cavanaugh.org>, Robin Everett-McGuirl
<ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU2WHq_5RVM5ViuV_KbVKENOmWtRA+HGvt8+PRnLeiadFg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
True enough. I'd love to see N Main be 1 travel lane in each direction
with dedicated bike lanes. It would change the nature of the street, slow
traffic and probably boost investment. If the street were slowed down,
couldn't you envision more millennials wanting to live there with great
R-Line access to the train station, downtown and so forth?
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:14 PM Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Clearly very few of you ever try to cross N main st. on foot. to a
> pedestrian the excessive speed is dangerous. greg
>
> From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
> Date: Monday, December 14, 2015 at 4:07 PM
> To: Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen <
> rmath13 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Summit Neighborhood <Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
>
> Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
> Schools, Firefighters
>
> Interesting perspectives.
>
> I've often felt it's crazy that my side street, North Main and Blackstone
> all have the same speed limit! Some of these places should probably be 20,
> others, like North Main, Blackstone, could arguably be 30, except that we
> live in a world of poor enforcement and if you don't fit certain profiles,
> you are unlikely to get pulled over unless going in excess of 10-15 over
> the limit and/or tailgating or driving erratically or aggressively. So we
> set limits lower and add stop signs, which only work for the law abiding.
>
> Part of me loves the speed table - it doesn't discriminate and boy does it
> work. I just LAUGH when someone aggressively tailgates me on Smith st. by
> the State House. I like to pull out of their way so they can hit that thing
> as fast as they want! When combined with a raised crosswalk and judiciously
> applied, tables can be a good thing. Neck downs can also be done to
> accommodate bike lanes without them having to rejoin the traffic lane. So
> those can work too.
>
> And, of course, the technology exists to force every car to obey every
> speed limit. The cars all have computers that monitor speed, and GPS, so
> they could have "smart" speed governors. It could even be sold as a
> "feature" to help drivers qualify for cheaper insurance or to avoid tickets.
>
> I'm not sure here is a huge speed issue on Blackstone (except the odd nut
> case late at night - but does anything work against them?), but, there are
> lots of pedestrians in nice weather, so there could be a distracted driving
> issue. Speed humps will help with that too!
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:30 PM Robin Everett-McGuirl <
> ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Blackstone is so constantly destroyed by potholes and ripped up by snow
>> plows, I don't see the need for speedbumps. I'm constantly behind people
>> going insanely slow on Blackstone as it is. Furthermore, it's one of the
>> only ways to get around the Eastside without hitting 800 stop signs and/or
>> lights, so it would make me crazy if we further hampered traffic in the
>> city by adding these speedbumps. Not to mention that the traffic from the
>> lights at Angel and Waterman streets already backs way up to Blackstone.
>> But, I guess if there are people here who want it to be impossible to go
>> over 25, ever, I don't really think we're going to agree on this.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
>>> speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
>>> I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
>>> impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
>>> speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>>>
>>> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it
>>> physically impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph
>>> anywhere in the city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What
>>> would happen if every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a
>>> 4-way stop? I suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>>>
>>> Bob M
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any
>>>> event, I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>>>> Andy Cagen
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <
>>>> cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>>>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Summit mailing list
>>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Summit mailing list
>>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -
>> *Robin McGuirl*
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
> _______________________________________________ Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 16:35:54 -0500
From: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
To: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CALGfqSJEs5+LVeMwNP=LztFyPT0XBJLY27dHfjAjCiAKG2qeXg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You have to have some arteries moving through a town, or traffic during
commute times gets insane. I agree, you could change the character of North
Main Street drastically by taking it down to a single lane and adding bike
lanes. That'd be super nice! But you have to figure out what you're going
to do with all the displaced traffic.
Also, I don't find crossing North Main hard ... you go to a light, wait for
it to change, and cross at the crosswalk. Speed of traffic in these
instances tends to be 0 mph.
--
-Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
-http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 16:44:04 -0500
From: Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com>
To: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <B196E779-3DAB-4C9D-BF44-A7D1FB83312C at mapcenter.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Glad you are seeing the problem. There was a lot of talk about midrise commercial- residential replacing vacant and blighted properties on N Main. It will never happen on a noisy, dangerous highway.
Every other purpose a city street may serve is sacrificed so drivers can save 45 seconds - at most! - to travel the length of N Main.
>
>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 4:21 PM, Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org <mailto:jeff at cavanaugh.org>> wrote:
>>
>> True enough. I'd love to see N Main be 1 travel lane in each direction with dedicated bike lanes. It would change the nature of the street, slow traffic and probably boost investment. If the street were slowed down, couldn't you envision more millennials wanting to live there with great R-Line access to the train station, downtown and so forth?
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:14 PM Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com <mailto:gerritt at mindspring.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Clearly very few of you ever try to cross N main st. on foot. to a pedestrian the excessive speed is dangerous. greg
>>
>> From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org <mailto:jeff at cavanaugh.org>>
>> Date: Monday, December 14, 2015 at 4:07 PM
>> To: Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com <mailto:ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>>, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com <mailto:rmath13 at gmail.com>>
>> Cc: Summit Neighborhood <Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
>>
>> Interesting perspectives.
>>
>> I've often felt it's crazy that my side street, North Main and Blackstone all have the same speed limit! Some of these places should probably be 20, others, like North Main, Blackstone, could arguably be 30, except that we live in a world of poor enforcement and if you don't fit certain profiles, you are unlikely to get pulled over unless going in excess of 10-15 over the limit and/or tailgating or driving erratically or aggressively. So we set limits lower and add stop signs, which only work for the law abiding.
>>
>> Part of me loves the speed table - it doesn't discriminate and boy does it work. I just LAUGH when someone aggressively tailgates me on Smith st. by the State House. I like to pull out of their way so they can hit that thing as fast as they want! When combined with a raised crosswalk and judiciously applied, tables can be a good thing. Neck downs can also be done to accommodate bike lanes without them having to rejoin the traffic lane. So those can work too.
>>
>> And, of course, the technology exists to force every car to obey every speed limit. The cars all have computers that monitor speed, and GPS, so they could have "smart" speed governors. It could even be sold as a "feature" to help drivers qualify for cheaper insurance or to avoid tickets.
>>
>> I'm not sure here is a huge speed issue on Blackstone (except the odd nut case late at night - but does anything work against them?), but, there are lots of pedestrians in nice weather, so there could be a distracted driving issue. Speed humps will help with that too!
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:30 PM Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com <mailto:ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Blackstone is so constantly destroyed by potholes and ripped up by snow plows, I don't see the need for speedbumps. I'm constantly behind people going insanely slow on Blackstone as it is. Furthermore, it's one of the only ways to get around the Eastside without hitting 800 stop signs and/or lights, so it would make me crazy if we further hampered traffic in the city by adding these speedbumps. Not to mention that the traffic from the lights at Angel and Waterman streets already backs way up to Blackstone.
>> But, I guess if there are people here who want it to be impossible to go over 25, ever, I don't really think we're going to agree on this.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com <mailto:rmath13 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>>
>> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it physically impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph anywhere in the city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What would happen if every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a 4-way stop? I suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>>
>> Bob M
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com <mailto:cagenlaw at acagen.com>> wrote:
>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any event, I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>> Andy Cagen
>>
>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com <mailto:cwbuecheler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>>> -http://cwbuecheler.com <http://cwbuecheler.com/> | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us <http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us>
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/ <http://sna.providence.ri.us/>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us <http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us>
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/ <http://sna.providence.ri.us/>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us <http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us>
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/ <http://sna.providence.ri.us/>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -
>> Robin McGuirl
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us <http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us>
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/ <http://sna.providence.ri.us/>_______________________________________________ Summit mailing list Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us <http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/ <http://sna.providence.ri.us/>_______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us <mailto:Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 16:57:08 -0500
From: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
To: summit <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CALGfqSLr_5JO73Atr=0RqBRc8j8AC+g7DsYa0yr_Q-UZ6RWSfQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
"When traffic is going past at 35-40 you can not even converse in a normal
tone of voice."
I walk or run that path 7 days a week, and this claim is demonstrably
false. Also the path is well far enough away from the road on both sides
that it doesn't trigger any kind of "oh my god I'll be hit!" stress
reaction. I'm far more ill at ease on other streets, where I often have to
run in the road due to the sidewalks being essentially unusable -- or
nonexistent.
People speeding a ton on Blackstone is symptomatic of a bigger issue: we
have all of these "great" things we've done to slow people down and manage
vehicles in this neighborhood, but we enforce absolutely zero of them. The
intersection at 7 Stars is a total nightmare of people parking in front of
the yellow line, parking in front of the bump-outs, parking up on the curb
on the wrong side of the street, sitting at the wheel on the wrong side of
the street with their flashers on, slowly creeping into moving traffic
until someone HAS to let them go (another Providence speciality!), etc.
Pedestrians leap out into traffic at the drop of a hat in the middle of
roads. Bikes run stop signs and stop lights constantly.
Does anyone ever get ticketed for any of this behavior? Or even
reprimanded? Nah. So who cares?
Without enforcement, none of this will mean anything. We'll spend a bunch
of money to have an obnoxious, hard-to-maintain, bumpy road, with people
slamming on the gas after each bump, creating a ton of noise and emissions,
for very limited gains. Seems a bad proposal to me.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com> wrote:
> The path along Blackstone is one of the most visited parks in the city.
> When traffic is going past at 35-40 you can not even converse in a normal
> tone of voice. Stress, blood pressure and adrenaline are all elevated in
> the presence of motor vehicles moving that fast. It will take 45 seconds
> more to drive a mile at 20 mph than 40 mph and the park will be more like a
> park and less like a highway median strip.
>
> 45 seconds, yo!
>
> Plus, a ?bike route? is a serious fail if a typical mom will not let a 4th
> grader ride their bike along it.
>
>
>
>
--
-Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
-http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:04:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>
To: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>, Jeffrey Cavanaugh
<jeff at cavanaugh.org>, Robin Everett-McGuirl
<ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<29896955.1450130697942.JavaMail.root at mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:34:04 -0500
From: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
To: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEAT3MEKFZp3t8iarb29RemrjpG8LVNWfFJ4aM3g8Dmf4xKKjQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Traffic calming measures are, by far, needed more on Main and Hope streets
than Blackstone. But, if I had to guess, Old Money speaks louder?
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>
wrote:
>
> Clearly very few of you ever try to cross N main st. on foot. to a
> pedestrian the excessive speed is dangerous. greg
>
> From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
> Date: Monday, December 14, 2015 at 4:07 PM
> To: Robin Everett-McGuirl <ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com>, Robert Mathiesen <
> rmath13 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Summit Neighborhood <Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
> Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
> Schools, Firefighters
>
> Interesting perspectives.
>
> I've often felt it's crazy that my side street, North Main and Blackstone
> all have the same speed limit! Some of these places should probably be 20,
> others, like North Main, Blackstone, could arguably be 30, except that we
> live in a world of poor enforcement and if you don't fit certain profiles,
> you are unlikely to get pulled over unless going in excess of 10-15 over
> the limit and/or tailgating or driving erratically or aggressively. So we
> set limits lower and add stop signs, which only work for the law abiding.
>
> Part of me loves the speed table - it doesn't discriminate and boy does it
> work. I just LAUGH when someone aggressively tailgates me on Smith st. by
> the State House. I like to pull out of their way so they can hit that thing
> as fast as they want! When combined with a raised crosswalk and judiciously
> applied, tables can be a good thing. Neck downs can also be done to
> accommodate bike lanes without them having to rejoin the traffic lane. So
> those can work too.
>
> And, of course, the technology exists to force every car to obey every
> speed limit. The cars all have computers that monitor speed, and GPS, so
> they could have "smart" speed governors. It could even be sold as a
> "feature" to help drivers qualify for cheaper insurance or to avoid tickets.
>
> I'm not sure here is a huge speed issue on Blackstone (except the odd nut
> case late at night - but does anything work against them?), but, there are
> lots of pedestrians in nice weather, so there could be a distracted driving
> issue. Speed humps will help with that too!
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 3:30 PM Robin Everett-McGuirl <
> ripper.mcguirl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Blackstone is so constantly destroyed by potholes and ripped up by snow
>> plows, I don't see the need for speedbumps. I'm constantly behind people
>> going insanely slow on Blackstone as it is. Furthermore, it's one of the
>> only ways to get around the Eastside without hitting 800 stop signs and/or
>> lights, so it would make me crazy if we further hampered traffic in the
>> city by adding these speedbumps. Not to mention that the traffic from the
>> lights at Angel and Waterman streets already backs way up to Blackstone.
>> But, I guess if there are people here who want it to be impossible to go
>> over 25, ever, I don't really think we're going to agree on this.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Robert Mathiesen <rmath13 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hardly anyone goes 25mph anywhere in the city, even though that is the
>>> speed limit unless otherwise posted. On Blackstone and Hope and North Main
>>> I try never to go faster than 25mph, but I will pull over once I get an
>>> impatient tail several cars long, so they can pass me at their preferred
>>> speed. It's not my job to make others obey the speed limit.
>>>
>>> That said, in theory I'd love to see somehting done to make it
>>> physically impossible for any private car ever to go faster than 25mph
>>> anywhere in the city. But I don't know what might accomplish that. (What
>>> would happen if every intersection anywhere in the city were made into a
>>> 4-way stop? I suspect even that wouldn't work.)
>>>
>>> Bob M
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Andrew Cagen <cagenlaw at acagen.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if this is a solution in search of a problem. In any
>>>> event, I add my voice to the chorus of opposition to speed bumps.
>>>> Andy Cagen
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhonemps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Christopher Buecheler <
>>>> cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there a big problem with accidents on Blackstone as it is now?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
>>>> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Summit mailing list
>>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Summit mailing list
>>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Summit mailing list
>>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -
>> *Robin McGuirl*
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Summit mailing list
>> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
>> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
>> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
> _______________________________________________ Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:41:30 -0500
From: Sumati Eberstadt <sumieber at earthlink.net>
To: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
Cc: Summit Neighborhood <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <C12F516C-BFDD-44E2-B4FA-F1FEBEB3CDB4 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
I think you are correct about that. And it won?t make it better, either. So many other more important things need doing, as you say.
On Dec 14, 2015, at 5:34 PM, Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com> wrote:
> Traffic calming measures are, by far, needed more on Main and Hope streets than Blackstone. But, if I had to guess, Old Money speaks louder?
>
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 19:33:52 -0500
From: madeline klein <madelineklein at verizon.net>
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
Cc: summit <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] SPAM-LOW: Re: Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone
Blvd traffic, Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <29724D54-5224-4AEF-84A2-B43B5AE771D6 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
I agree. I walk that path peacefully every day. I'd vote for the simplest and only money-generating solution, enforcement.
On Dec 14, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Christopher Buecheler wrote:
> "When traffic is going past at 35-40 you can not even converse in a normal tone of voice."
>
> I walk or run that path 7 days a week, and this claim is demonstrably false. Also the path is well far enough away from the road on both sides that it doesn't trigger any kind of "oh my god I'll be hit!" stress reaction. I'm far more ill at ease on other streets, where I often have to run in the road due to the sidewalks being essentially unusable -- or nonexistent.
>
> People speeding a ton on Blackstone is symptomatic of a bigger issue: we have all of these "great" things we've done to slow people down and manage vehicles in this neighborhood, but we enforce absolutely zero of them. The intersection at 7 Stars is a total nightmare of people parking in front of the yellow line, parking in front of the bump-outs, parking up on the curb on the wrong side of the street, sitting at the wheel on the wrong side of the street with their flashers on, slowly creeping into moving traffic until someone HAS to let them go (another Providence speciality!), etc. Pedestrians leap out into traffic at the drop of a hat in the middle of roads. Bikes run stop signs and stop lights constantly.
>
> Does anyone ever get ticketed for any of this behavior? Or even reprimanded? Nah. So who cares?
>
> Without enforcement, none of this will mean anything. We'll spend a bunch of money to have an obnoxious, hard-to-maintain, bumpy road, with people slamming on the gas after each bump, creating a ton of noise and emissions, for very limited gains. Seems a bad proposal to me.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com> wrote:
> The path along Blackstone is one of the most visited parks in the city. When traffic is going past at 35-40 you can not even converse in a normal tone of voice. Stress, blood pressure and adrenaline are all elevated in the presence of motor vehicles moving that fast. It will take 45 seconds more to drive a mile at 20 mph than 40 mph and the park will be more like a park and less like a highway median strip.
>
> 45 seconds, yo!
>
> Plus, a ?bike route? is a serious fail if a typical mom will not let a 4th grader ride their bike along it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:12:07 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU3jyK_xiXRcDb7sXkXOea3NpfDKWyEw18YnDQdmOsCSPQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Well, there is I-95.
On the face of it, it might feel like changing North Main St. from 2 lanes
in each direction to 1 would cut capacity in half. However, North Main has
dedicated left and right turn lanes at critical intersections, which could
be preserved, or better yet, improved. That, with an improvement in traffic
signal timing - both linear timing of greens and better timing of left
arrows, etc, I bet the impact of the lost lanes could be minimized.
As for traffic calming vs enforcement, I say, let's have both. Traffic
calming is nice, but enforcement will always be needed. It would be nice if
we had a comprehensive plan on the calming infrastructure, and could phase
in elements whenever major work was being done, with perhaps a couple of
major overhauls undertaken at any one time. A priority list, some
budgeting, some good design, and not just always deferring to the
automobile.
Instead of asking where the cars will go when we take a lane away, we
should ask how many cars will come if we add a lane.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:37 PM Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
wrote:
> You have to have some arteries moving through a town, or traffic during
> commute times gets insane. I agree, you could change the character of North
> Main Street drastically by taking it down to a single lane and adding bike
> lanes. That'd be super nice! But you have to figure out what you're going
> to do with all the displaced traffic.
>
> Also, I don't find crossing North Main hard ... you go to a light, wait
> for it to change, and cross at the crosswalk. Speed of traffic in these
> instances tends to be 0 mph.
>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 26
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 20:22:34 -0500
From: Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>
To: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <D294D509.62874%gerritt at mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
90% of the oil can not be taken out of the ground if you want your
grandchildren to have a livable planet. Deferring to the automobile is
getting to be very bad policy. Locking in infrastructure to keep the cars
moving is a big waste of money when we should be phasing them out. greg
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
Date: Monday, December 14, 2015 at 8:12 PM
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>, Summit Neighborhood
<Summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Well, there is I-95.
On the face of it, it might feel like changing North Main St. from 2 lanes
in each direction to 1 would cut capacity in half. However, North Main has
dedicated left and right turn lanes at critical intersections, which could
be preserved, or better yet, improved. That, with an improvement in traffic
signal timing - both linear timing of greens and better timing of left
arrows, etc, I bet the impact of the lost lanes could be minimized.
As for traffic calming vs enforcement, I say, let's have both. Traffic
calming is nice, but enforcement will always be needed. It would be nice if
we had a comprehensive plan on the calming infrastructure, and could phase
in elements whenever major work was being done, with perhaps a couple of
major overhauls undertaken at any one time. A priority list, some budgeting,
some good design, and not just always deferring to the automobile.
Instead of asking where the cars will go when we take a lane away, we should
ask how many cars will come if we add a lane.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 4:37 PM Christopher Buecheler
<cwbuecheler at gmail.com> wrote:
> You have to have some arteries moving through a town, or traffic during
> commute times gets insane. I agree, you could change the character of North
> Main Street drastically by taking it down to a single lane and adding bike
> lanes. That'd be super nice! But you have to figure out what you're going to
> do with all the displaced traffic.
>
> Also, I don't find crossing North Main hard ... you go to a light, wait for it
> to change, and cross at the crosswalk. Speed of traffic in these instances
> tends to be 0 mph.
>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
_______________________________________________ Summit mailing list
Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us SNA
Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 27
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 21:30:32 -0500
From: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
To: Summit List <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CALGfqSKp3LJK8qCsv1BTgpZgS+8rhCojc1=B5YKeasM0J9tyVg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Cars aren't going anywhere. They'll be converted to non-fossil fuels, is
all, as is already happening. Also, shortly, they'll mostly be driven by
robots, which will be hundreds of times safer and smarter than human
drivers and solve a lot of these problems anyway.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>
wrote:
> 90% of the oil can not be taken out of the ground if you want your
> grandchildren to have a livable planet. Deferring to the automobile is
> getting to be very bad policy. Locking in infrastructure to keep the cars
> moving is a big waste of money when we should be phasing them out. greg
>
>
>
--
-Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
-http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
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Message: 28
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 02:34:55 +0000
From: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
To: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEd3KU0EycqzekQ9DJ1R2s6-hfJg0qwvD2C3kg-eb0wQUGgPVg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I agree with that Chris. And the robots will obey the speed limit and yield
to pedestrians making traditional, mixed-use streets all he more pleasant,
and probably not sacrificing much in throughput, possibly achieving higher
throughput.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 9:31 PM Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Cars aren't going anywhere. They'll be converted to non-fossil fuels, is
> all, as is already happening. Also, shortly, they'll mostly be driven by
> robots, which will be hundreds of times safer and smarter than human
> drivers and solve a lot of these problems anyway.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Greg Gerritt <gerritt at mindspring.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 90% of the oil can not be taken out of the ground if you want your
>> grandchildren to have a livable planet. Deferring to the automobile is
>> getting to be very bad policy. Locking in infrastructure to keep the cars
>> moving is a big waste of money when we should be phasing them out. greg
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Christopher Buecheler - @cwbuecheler
> -http://cwbuecheler.com | Web, Writing, Cocktails and More
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
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Message: 29
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 23:00:14 -0500
From: John Bazik <jbazik at gmail.com>
To: Andrew Nosal <andy at mapcenter.com>
Cc: summit at sna.providence.ri.us
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <CF5AA061-2185-4759-8A43-FCCFCF52E1C9 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> What should be done: make the southbound side 2-way, with narrow lanes. Northbound side has barriers at intersections so each block is only a cul de sac for local access by cars, but bicycles etc can roll on through: a 2-way bike route. North of the Cemetary entrance, the pavement can be removed except for a cycle track.
I love this idea. Has it been proposed? Safety = separation for bicycles.
As a cyclist, the Blvd makes me nervous, because I?ve seen people drive in the bike lane. I have to be as alert there as I am on Hope St. As a motorist, I never dip under 30mph. It?s a long, wide, straight roadway. When you drive 20mph, as some do, and 10 cars line up behind you, you are just pissing people off.
As for bumps, I learned, when I worked on traffic calming way back when, that they are not appreciated by emergency vehicles or snow plows. I like our curb extensions (and I?ll defend them to my last breath). I bike to and from work every day. Neckdowns present no obstacle to cyclists.
John
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 23:12:34 -0500
From: John Bazik <jbazik at gmail.com>
To: Jeffrey Cavanaugh <jeff at cavanaugh.org>
Cc: Christopher Buecheler <cwbuecheler at gmail.com>, Summit List
<summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID: <BB5726FD-C569-4B04-A6A3-A3ECB1884FB6 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> I agree with that Chris. And the robots will obey the speed limit and yield to pedestrians making traditional,
I agree. Electric cars and renewable energy are our bright future.
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:48:29 -0500
From: Emlyn Addison <noisyblocks at gmail.com>
To: "summit at sna.providence.ri.us" <summit at sna.providence.ri.us>
Subject: Re: [Summit] Fwd from Sam Zurier: Blackstone Blvd traffic,
Schools, Firefighters
Message-ID:
<CAEAT3MHxbpRfUnO3h6LODX8ppwkF7M2M8dzVYJxSn_LHhJzSQA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
But can you imagine the never-ending backups behind people waiting to turn
all up and down Blackstone? Look what happens at rush hour when all those
cars are squeezed into one lane on Butler Ave; it regularly backs up all
the way from Angell to Blackstone. A real mess.
Blackstone is a major artery whether we [they] like it or not.
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:00 PM, John Bazik <jbazik at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What should be done: make the southbound side 2-way, with narrow
> lanes. Northbound side has barriers at intersections so each block is only
> a cul de sac for local access by cars, but bicycles etc can roll on
> through: a 2-way bike route. North of the Cemetary entrance, the pavement
> can be removed except for a cycle track.
>
> I love this idea. Has it been proposed? Safety = separation for bicycles.
>
> As a cyclist, the Blvd makes me nervous, because I?ve seen people drive in
> the bike lane. I have to be as alert there as I am on Hope St. As a
> motorist, I never dip under 30mph. It?s a long, wide, straight roadway.
> When you drive 20mph, as some do, and 10 cars line up behind you, you are
> just pissing people off.
>
> As for bumps, I learned, when I worked on traffic calming way back when,
> that they are not appreciated by emergency vehicles or snow plows. I like
> our curb extensions (and I?ll defend them to my last breath). I bike to
> and from work every day. Neckdowns present no obstacle to cyclists.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Summit mailing list
> Summit at sna.providence.ri.us
> http://sna.providence.ri.us/mailman/listinfo/summit_sna.providence.ri.us
> SNA Website: http://sna.providence.ri.us/
>
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